Do you have questions about carriage driving or horse training that you just can’t find the answer to? This page is for you!
Sometimes it’s tough to find the resources you need to further your carriage driving education. While there may be a lot of information out there, it can be tough to find that one answer you’re searching for.
Rather than sorting through page after page on social media or rulebooks, you can just ask your question here.ย I’ll reply here, and I may take it one step further by answering your question in a blog or video post.
You can ask question about training principles, carriages, harness, competitions or what ever else you’re curious about. See what others have asked, and post your question below.
Hi Andy
I ordered both your lessons on rein handling styles. Very informative. I prefer to drive like I ride with single reins. .The rein to the bit coming from between pinky and ring fingers. How do I then position the reins for single hand driving -As is required in some driving dressage tests?
I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you.
Diane
Most people us the Hungarian Rein Position for the single handed movements because it is the most intuitive, and provides good leverage over both reins, especially in the upper levels when there are changes in direction within the single handed movements.
There aren’t rules about which handling position you use for those movements, so using the Coachman’s position, which is the base position used in the Achenbach method works well too.
The key is to practice those positions for more than is simply required for the test at hand (pardon the pun.) Developing the ability to handle the reins in multiple positions gives you more tools in your reinsmanship toolbox. That boils down to greater communication!
I migrate between all of the rein positions throughout the course of a drive regardless of the type of driving I am doing.
Hi Andy! I’m hoping this is the right forum for an answer to a technical/historical question about carriages and harnesses …
Thank you!
Uh, I’m a little confused by the question, but I’ll take a stab at it.
If you needed to bring an extra horse along, you could easily pony the horse from the carriage. If he was similar size and shape as the horse in the shafts, you could use the same harness for either horse. Then again, if you had two horses, you’d likely drive them as a pair.
On the other hand, there was a time when driving tandem to the hunt allowed the hunt horse to travel unencumbered to the hunt as the leader in the tandem, since the wheeler is the one to do all the work. That was, in actual fact, more of a short lived fashion statement as anything else.
250 years ago, travel by carriage was quite the exception to the rule. By far, the majority of people traveled by foot. A few traveled by horseback, and the rarer few aristocrats traveled by servant driven carriages.
150 years ago, the family horse & carriage was more common among the middle class. If there were a longer road trip, you simply traveled in stages, resting yourself and your horse in between.
Thank you!
So we are having some debate on how far away from the carriage a horse should be when driving a carriage that you have to work the break and the harness has no breeching or shaves . Since they are essentially pushing into the collar to start the vehicle will the amount of links you drop make a difference in how easy or hard it is to pull? Once there is tension on the tugs would it make a difference if you had no links dropped or would it be easier for the horse to pull if he was closer say if you dropped 4 links?
There’s no specific, ideal distance from a carriage, and in most circumstances, the distance in front of the carriage wouldn’t make it harder or easier to pull. I suppose if the singletree were very, very low, it might make a small difference.
Long lining question…..i use a surcingle with a gripper or a harness back pad and crupper. Lines are web lunge lines. I start with inside line directly to my hand to help the horse understand this new way of lunging. However, when I move to both lines in terrets the back pad is always pulled to the inside. I am doing something wrong! Ideas?? Suggestions???
Your pony needs some withers (teasing, of course!)
Some surcingles have pads with a channel in the middle that help the surcingle stay in place on either side of the withers. Most good driving saddles have those pads as well.
Even with those pads, you have to cinch up the girth just about as tight as you can to resist the rotational force applied by the long lines, especially if the contact is heavy.
If the surcingle you’re using doesn’t have those pads, it may not matter how much you tighten the girth. It will almost always rotate.
Try your driving saddle with the tunback & breeching removed.
Also, I don’t remember if you’ve signed up for the Long Lining 101 class, but I cover long lining equipment suggestions in that class.
Dear Andy.
I have stopped the sport of driving a few years ago, and have a few items for sale someone may truly use and treasure. Do you have an ad page or site for sale items? I owned two Friesians and loved to carriage drive. Denver, CO used to host the Friesian Regionals, several pleasure shows, participated with two carriage clubs, and had the pleasure of driving, “Traditional Day of Driving,” events.
Please advise me as I have two beautiful K-Collars, patent leather, brass hames, and one new driving bit.
Thank You,
Sharron
It seems these days most people are using social media classified ads for these types of things. That’s the most efficient way to get photos and descriptions in front of the most people interested in the sport. Look up carriage driving classified groups on your favorite social media site. I think Facebook probably has the most carriage drivers out of all the options.
I read your article about using blinders or not. I think I have one of those horses (a 14.3 hand stocky walking horse) who prefers driving without blinders. I trained him through all of the steps in an open bridle and he is now pulling a Pioneer Haflinger Trail Forecart around in our field and up and down the half mile long driveway. He has no problems and seems to be enjoying it. I started ground driving him with the blinders to see how he would feel about that. He was much less confident and clearly wanted to be able to see around himself. He eventually pulled the Forecart with blinders on in the same field, and he had a small, short lived spook which he has never done before while hitched. Recently I drove him with the open bridle on the small driving obstacle course that a friend has. He was fine, although he looked at everything with calm interest and was not as focused as I would have liked. So I am thinking about the half blinders you mentioned in your article. Would you recommend them, and, if so, where do I find them? thanks!, Mara
Hi Mara,
As I’ve mentioned in an answer to a similar question on the “Blinders or Not” post, blinders can be useful in helping a horse focus on their work. That said, you really have to choose on a horse by horse, and sometimes circumstance basis.
From the limited context of your question, it sounds like you’ve given the answer to your question in the second sentence:
“I think I have one of those horses who prefers driving without blinders.”
It’s a little difficult to guess how much time over which the experiences you relate have taken. If, as they sound, they are individual experiences here and there, I’d say your horse is doing great!
Driving “off campus” through obstacles, your horse should look at things with calm interest. It shows a thoughtful, confident horse. You really couldn’t ask for a much better result than that!
Time and experience is what your horse needs more than a tack change.
If, you find over the course a full season, you are having difficulty keeping your horse’s attention where you want it, then perhaps, half-blinders may be worth trying. That said, working on lesson plans that encourage your horse to focus, such as “The Training Dial“, or “Transitions on the 8“, may be all your horse needs to learn how to focus on the task at hand.
Finally, if you decide you want to try half blinders:
I have gotten half blinders from IdealHarness.com in the past. Most other harness dealers or manufacturers will likely offer them as well, such as IVC Carriage, Driving Essentials, or where ever you purchased your harness.
Hopefully that helps!
Take care,
Andy
Thanks for your quick response, Andy! You have given me the confidence to continue with the open bridle for now. I am new to driving, as is my horse, and we rely on the expertise of others. Prior to teaching Ringo to drive, we have been doing dressage, formation riding, obstacle courses and miles of trail riding in the Gila National Forest, so he has been exposed to a lot of things in an open bridle. However, I have read and been told that blinders are a “must”. So I have been torn between my knowledge of my horse, my relationship with him, what feels right to us both, and the advice of others with far more driving experience. Yours was the first article that I’ve come across that talked about instances where driving with an open bridle was appropriate. I look forward to doing the lesson plans you recommended. I really appreciate your information and support.
Warm regards, Mara
Happy Sunday,
I purchased a Kutzman Light Cob this summer and it had a bent shaft. I just got this back from my machines and I have four flat tires. Since the Kutzman is made in Poland the tires do not have PSI in US terms. I cannot find anyone who can tell me how many pounds of pressure my tires should be at. I even reached out to a dealer and they had no clue. Any suggestions? The tire shop put 20lbs on a front tire and now I am doing the rear tire and I am up to 40 lbs and it sill looks slightly flat. I can find nothing on the web. Also it would be really cool to have a carriage maintenance video. Thank you for everything you do. I am looking so forward to finally driving.
There probably isn’t just one answer to this question. The tires are likely motorcycle tires for multi terrain bikes. They probably have a tolerable range from 25 – 70 psi.
The softer the inflation, the more comfy the ride, but that comes with a significant risk. Softer tires are less stable and more likely to lead to a turn over in a high speed turn.
The firmer the inflation, the easier the tire will roll. A firmer tire is also less likely to cave from side force in a turn. Of course, you give up a little comfort with a harder tire.
I’d experiment with something in 50psi range, then go from there. Just be sure you inflate the tires equally, and check the tire pressure regularly.
Hi Andy,
I just stumbled upon your website and will look into your “stand” series of videos tomorrow, as it is late at night here now.
A few months ago I purchased a wee standardbred. After 33 races, he was sacked for getting too uptight at the races. He was never actually classified as unruly. Prior to purchase, I watched videos of his few standing starts (he mainly had mobile starts) and he stood quietly in all of them and did not once rear or react to horses rearing around him. I decided to buy him as he had proven quiet, sensible and downright lazy as a newly ridden horse. I felt if I developed a relationship with him riding, then we could slip into pleasure harness in the same low key manner.
Unfortunately, his physique is that he only has 14″ of space on his back to correctly fit a saddle. My vet suggested riding bareback, but at my age, my hips do not allow for that!
Instead I have spent our time working on manners, trotting on the lunge (he raced as a pacer) and learning to balance into canter and over poles.
He has developed muscle, and is in excellent condition now. I have rarely seen a shiner horse and he has not been washed. If he was a cow, he would be described as “blooming”. He is feeling good.
He will stand tied up, but has his own agenda when loose. I have spend hours, days, weeks and months (2) with him multiple times a day, in all sorts of locations, yard, paddock, garden etc…repositioning him if he moves when grooming or tacking or just teaching stand. I refuse to tie him as I feel he needs to concentrate on what I am wanting and stand if I ask. He has improved, yet I feel he does it on sufferance. Initially he disliked people and would not switch on to any form of connection, Now he seeks attention, but switches off more than I would like.
Last week, I began long reining him. All was fine in the huge round yard I have. After some days, we progressed to the drive/garden which he has been grazing in for months due to it being the only grass around as we are heading into a drought. It was instantly obvious that ‘stand” was a huge issue in an open area, especially when facing away from the other horses. When he tries to go forward I let him walk into the rein, he stops and tries to turn both ways, he paws the ground, he backs up. I remain calm and try to get him back in position but as we work quietly through it, he winds up. He will spin and try to bolt past me. He will rear, then buck. I wait until he rests a back leg, before moving on and asking again. He seems to get worse and more insecure each time. He gets jibby and wants to go to the yard where the other horses are. I have tried lunging him outside the yard, then walking away and asking for stand. When he gets upset, we go back to the lunge in the place he wants to be. I end the lesson when he stands where I want, I then take the gig saddle and long reins off in that spot as a reward. I have noticed he is happy to stand like an old nag as I unharness him, in the same spot he was rearing and upset, moments before.
I understand he has always been harnessed, moved off to a workout or race for a shortish period of time, then been unharnessed.
He is not used to doing nothing in harness. He is not used to going towards home, then away from it again countless times. He thinks when you head towards home, the workout is over.
I am wondering if I would be better off searching for a horse that has raced less? One who is not so ingrained to Go, Go, Go…? I am not willing to put him between the shafts if he will not stand when asked.
Have you worked with horses like this before, with success?
PS. I live on 11 acres in town and am wanting to drive on back streets, as well as paddocks. I live near a racecourse also and pony club grounds. I would like him to help me break in my 3 year old large pony, by tying him behind and beside the cart as I work the standardbred. However, I am beginning to feel, this may not be the right horse for the job. He is so chilled out when ridden, yet so angry and stressy when long reined.
He will rear when leading also if excited.
Thanks, in advance.
Hi Andy,
I am working with a mini who is new to driving and we are working through your standing class. He is beginning to stand but he will then start bobbing his head, he is not turning his head or moving, just bobbing his head. He will also do this while driving sometimes when asked to stand. Hopefully I did not miss the answer in the video but what would be your suggestion for correcting this head bobbing.
Thank you.
Sheila
I would also like to know an answer to this question.
Hi Sheila,
The head bobbing is just a way for him to do something while he’s being asked to do nothing. It’s kind of a release of energy on his part. It’s actually a good sign, since he knows he has to be still, but he just can’t stand the idea of being completely still. He’s figured out that there’s a place where he can do everything you’re asking him to, but still have his fidget.
I’d say a bob or two, and you can let it go. If gets really repetitive, you can give him a verbal correction accompanied by a sharp tug on the lead rope. Be consistent with what you use for a verbal, like “be still”, or “stop!”
In the carriage you can use the same verbal with a quick tug on the rein or touch with the whip. As long as he understands that he’s being asked to stand at the moment, he won’t take either of those as an indication
to move. If he does move, correct him. He’ll eventually learn that it’s a correction rather than a request.
Over time you’ll be able to limit, or eliminate the behavior. It’s just time, patience, and persistence!
I hope that helps!
Andy
Thanks Andy, yes it does. What’s funny about all of this, it is building my patience too:)
I read the articles “Get it Straight” and “Connecting with Contact”. They are very helpful for me. There is one aspect of contact that I am uncertain about, following the horse’s head movement at the walk. When I ride at the walk with contact my hands pick up the rhythm of the horse and there is a lot of hand movement required to maintain steady contact but it seems to work out just fine. When I drive at the walk it is not as easy to pick up the rhythm with my hands. The horse’s head must move the same when driving as it does when riding. I am thinking that when riding my body is also moving with the horse which might account for the greater hand movement required. The same problem does not seem to exist at the trott because the horse’s head does not move at the trott, right? What are your thoughts on the subject Andy?
I think Gipsy and I made progress on my contact shortcoming during our driving session this morning. I noticed in a picture that I was holding the reins in a different grip (out the top over the index / pointer finger with thumb on top) than I utilize when riding. I changed my grip on the reins to come out of the bottom of my hand with the pinky finger being the last part of my hand touching the reins. My idea was that this would allow more sensitivity on my part as the pinky is not as strong as the index / pointer. Last night I watched a Coachman’s Delight Facebook video on “how much contact?” and might have gotten the idea from watching that video. I was surprised that the new rein grip improved my feel quite a bit and my hand was able to follow the horses head movement at a walk much better.
Hi Johnny,
I’m glad you happened upon the video that answered your question. You are a great “self-guided” tour of improving your driving! I’m glad you are finding the answers that you’re looking for.
It’s kind of fun to read your experiences, then notice that you’ve followed the exact path that I would have pointed you toward.
I have been training a 3 1/2 year old large Mini to drive. I have been working with her for three months now. I have done everything in an open bridle and she has been very good. Dragging the PVC pipe drag I made and even leading her with the cart on but it was 2 and a half months leading up to these things. She was so good about everything I introduce the blinders. WOW it was like her brain fell out of her head! Can’t do anything with the blinders on. I have trained with an open bridle then going to blinders in the past with other mini’s I have trained and no issues at all. Now I don’t know what to do. Start all over with everything but with the blinders on and go from there. Is this what I should do?
Hi Patricia,
It sounds like you have a great base started with your mini. It certainly sounds like you’ve found out pretty clearly that she does not like having any restriction of her vision.
Personally, if she’s going as well as you say, I’d just keep going with her training in the open bridle. Not only is there nothing to be gained by introducing the blinders, but it sounds like you may end up losing ground in her training.
Of course, you should be extra careful when it comes to hitching in the open bridle. Give a few extra sessions of false hitching with the help of a friend managing the carriage while you lead, then ground drive her. Provided that all goes as planned, it may just be that she far prefers to be in an open bridle.
In American Driving Society, and U.S.E.F carriage driving competitions, blinders are not required. Rules in other venues may be different.
If you are obligated to use blinders by some rulebook, then yes, you may have to start from the ground up. It may be worth it to continue putting more miles on her in the open bridle first to continue to build her confidence. As she becomes more comfortable with all of her work, introducing something new will be less disruptive.
Finally, see what you can do to find blinders that provide the widest field of view possible. If you go from an open bridle, to blinders that rest very close to the eyes with significant restrictions on her vision, it can be very unsettling.
Take a look at “Blinders on Not?” for more discussion on this subject.
I am sort of in the same situation. However, in my case I’m rebuilding confident with my mini mare after a traumatic cart accident last summer. She was a solid driving mare for 8 years, then a deer spooked her, and she became tangled in cart & harness. She’s now scared of what she can’t see. I’m taking it super slow and then even more slow with her from ground one. I also took your ‘teaching your horse to stand’ course and that has been wonderful! !!!! We are in Step 3, standing while harnessed. She is calm, no tension while in a training bridle, but with the blinders on her regular bridle, the tension is back. I have not attempted to hitch her to a cart yet. I believe that is still months away. I’m told that I would be crazy to hitch a horse without blinders, especially if I’m trying a ‘comeback’ with an accident victim. But she’s as different as night and day, when she has free vision as opposed to using blinders. Similar to your rely for Patricia, I have been planning to continue to rebuild confidence the open bridle before eventually transitioning to her bridle with blinders. And then hopefully the cart. I would be very interested in hearing your opinion about keeping her in an open bridle, even when back in the cart….considering her accident. I will also look up the article “blinders or not” that you mentioned in Patricia’s reply.
Thank you! I don’t have enough of words to say how beneficial the ‘standing’ lessons have been in rebuilding my mare’s driving foundation. I felt pretty hopeless about things, but I had my first moment of hope the evening I took the online course with you. I’m so grateful my friend Julie Good purchased the class for me as a gift.
Hi Andy,
After selling all of my trained horses except my 25 year old first ever horse Juliette, I’m now down to a 7 year old 15.3 H black Holsteiner mare, Stacey, who has only trail ridden (but is super sweet and kind) , her slightly hyper 3 yr old 15.3 H black daughter, Joan Jett, who still acts up slightly with the farrier, and a 3 year old 15.2H flaxen red dun half Holsteiner filly, Judy Hopps, who is super duper ground broke, and follows you right into a horse trailer with just a rope around her neck.
I want to train the 3 of them as a pair and a spare. My 25 yr old will not be helpful in any of this — she has blatantly told me I could carriage train her descendants, but not her :). I used to ground drive my 20-30 yr old black Standardbred mare with youngsters as a pair, with a side rein to keep the youngster from nipping my ever patient old mare, and that worked like a charm. Then I’d drive everyone single. I have since sold all carts and wagons before moving to Oregon. I still have some old harness (including one synthetic), and a good driving whip, so I’m all set for at least ground driving in a pair again, and hooking up a single to a cart. Just need a cart.
I now have 32 acres, some flat (but muddy), and some very steep (but a gravel drive through it). Due to being in the process of moving years ago, I missed out on a huge tax rebate on a $6K electric golf cart, that I would have converted to a “pairs wagon with electric assist and brakes,” to train horses with, and help them deal with a super steep hill (steep enough to make vehicles groan on one stretch).
Now that I’m starting from scratch again, what do you suggest for a wagon (w/ some electric assist ??), to help young horses (in a pair) condition on steep hills, with a well groomed gravel drive, with level grass or blacktop to turn around on at either end? What tires should get? Ideally something that can navigate occasional deep Portlandian mud.
Also, do you know anyone near Portland, OR who can help me get going again? In Michigan I had my buddy Karl, and we helped each other train each other’s horses — we successfully converted his ex-sulky racing mare to a “second weddings only” carriage horse on roads business :).
I’d love a tutorial on
Hi Anya,
It sounds like you have a fun project there!
Since all three of the horse are green to driving, I personally would focus most of my attention on getting each of them going as really solid single horses first. Getting them all comfortable, confident, and fit as individuals will make any combination of them as pairs more successful.
For the slightly hyper Joan Jet, I’d spend quite a bit of quality time on her Stand Training. In fact, all three of the horses will benefit greatly from that training. It really helps the horses understand how to focus on you when they’re in work mode.
With that in mind, I’d be looking for a reliable single carriage first. A single carriage will always have utility in your barn for as long as you have driving horses.
4-wheel carriages are more versatile than 2-wheel carriages, since they can be hitched to horses and ponies of varying sizes. That said, they tend to be more expensive.
If you really know you’re going to spend most of your time driving pairs, then you could go for a good 2-wheeler like the Frey Sprint, or similar.
Of course, you can find carriages that can be used both as single and pair carriage. Carriages like that tend to slightly on the heavy side for singles, and light for the pair.
As a single carriage, you probably wouldn’t want to attack the super-steep grades, especially when the horse is green. Work on moderate terrain would be fine.
As a pair carriage, a green pair hitched to what is essentially a single carriage, can over-power the carriage and driver easily (thus the notes on single driving first!) However, that lighter weight would be nice for going up those steep grades.
For most carriages like this, changing the hardware from single to pair takes about 10-15 minutes. That’s handy, but not super handy. So driving one horse single in the morning, and the pair in the afternoon is definitely doable, but kind of a pain. Thus, having a “single only” carriage is much more convenient.
In your situation, it sounds like pneumatics would be handy for the mud and terrain. Many of the modern carriages from Poland come with option to be used both with hard tires, and pneumatics, so switching from one to the other is similar to changing a car tire.
I’d look for smooth-tread tires for less rolling resistance. The enduro style knobby tires are great for traction, but they make the carriage harder to pull in deep footing, and sometime can get “grabby” with their traction in fast work. Believe it or not, there times when you rather those wheels slide!
The carriage that I’ve used over the years often that fits this bill is the Max I. It’s a pretty good “all arounder” type carriage. It’s only downside is that the pair adapter may not come with a live evener, something I consider critical for training pairs. Of course, many trainers do not, so… (well that’s another article to write!)
There are lots of other carriage options out there. You’ll just have to shop around.
Don’t obsess over weight too much! The horse in the equation is quite literally the “horse power.” With good training and proper conditioning, horses can comfortably pull carriages that are close to or equal their own body weight. Don’t forget, they are drawing that weight on roller bearings, not carrying the weight.
I have to admit, I’m completely amused by the idea of using a golf cart as a wagon! Practically speaking, horses don’t need assistance pulling a carriage.
Hopefully this helps more than it confuses!
~Andy
Anya,
You might have gotten this sorted out already, but there are a couple of people who do carriage work in the Portland Metro area. Depending on what you are looking for, there is a CDE driver in Vancouver who is helping me with my baby thoroughbred and another out in Beavercreek who does more pleasure driving related work. I could get you their contact info if you would like (my email thoroughbredrider@gmail.com). Always fun to know that there is another person locally who is driving.
Welcome to Oregon and happy trails.
Thanks for the input Bridget! It’s great to see that carriage drivers can connect this way.
can you recommend any resources on furling a tandem whip?
The only thing that comes to mind right away is in the book “The Art of Driving” by Max Pape (chapter 17, page 81-86.) Unfortunately that book is out of print, so it may be hard to get your hands on a copy.
I’ll put it on my to-do list for videos to make.
Hi,
I thought I saw something on correcting a counter bend. Was that an online lesson or something that I saw at one time? If so I’m i able to take that class now? Thanks much!
Counter-bending is in indication of a loss of the horse’s balance through a turn. So the antidote to counter-bending is correct balance.
You can help your horse establish better neutral balance by improving your Half Halt. That will set your horse up for more successful turns before he enters the turn. For that, take a look at https://coachmansdelight.com/half-halt-class/
The next thing to do is improve your horse’s balance through the turn by improving your use of The Outside Rein. https://coachmansdelight.com/outside-rein-class/
Here is the author’s (Hardy Zantke) response posted in CDL ——- Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:53:34 +0000
From: Hardy Zantke
Subject: Driving the diagonal
Good question (and thanks for reading the rule book & my articles and for your compliment.) So since you refer to my opinion, let me explain it further the way I see it:
Yes, you have a good point, pointing to Art. 522.7 “A movement which must be carried out at a certain point of the arena should be done at the moment when the horse’s nose is above this point.” I think the word “movement” in there might be a bit misleading. I think it should refer more to “change of pace” – however, even there we can argue about if it should not be better called for change of gait – as there it’s clear. A change of gait should be completed when the nose reaches that point. Example, Halt at X, or the transition from trot to walk at A. Whereas just the change of pace = the transition from working trot to lengthened trot on the diagonal one certainly cannot have completed when the nose reaches the starting point of that diagonal. On the other hand, the end of the lengthening on the other end of the diagonal, yes, which should be completed by the time one reaches the end of the diagonal. So it’s tricky and difficult how to put that properly into the rule book (thus my articles to explain – at least how I see it).
The yellow pages help a little more as Article 954.15 spells out “Transitions: Change of page must be made smoothly and promptly with the Horse remaining in balance and on the bit. A transition must be completed as the nose of the Horse arrives at the prescribed marker, unless otherwise stated” But also here, see my explanations above, that again does not really apply properly to the lengthening on the diagonal, right? We don’t have the lengthening “completed” when we have the nose at the marker where we start the diagonal. We only start the lengthening after we are straight on that diagonal.
The yellow pages go on with Art 954.16 “Change of Pace and Movement: Changes of pace and movement are made when the heads of the leaders reach the point indicated in the test” which doesn’t really help us any further and has the same shortcoming as Art 522.7
To further point out that it really refers more to the change of gait – and perhaps also pace – except the upward transition on the diagonal – and not to the change of directions, let me also point to just always the second movement: You come down center line after your halt and salute at X and then the test calls for either going left or right at C, right? But we NEVER reach C with the nose of the horse, nor must the leaders, we ALWAYS turn earlier!
So that darn “when the nose reaches the point” really can only refer to change of gait – and mostly also pace – except with the start of the diagonal – and does not refer to change of direction. At least that’s how I see it. All the best & happy driving Hardy
Need help with your CD-L subscription?
How do I determine what size cart, shaft, wheel size I need for my horse (large pony)?
There’s a handy little chart on American Driving Society website that has a decent guide for Driving Vehicle Measurements.
I would use that as “guide” rather than a fixed formula. Ponies and horses come in all shapes and sizes, so you can’t really say A+B will always equal C exactly.
There’s more latitude with 4-wheel carriages than there is on 2-wheel carriages. In other words, you can get “close enough” with a 4-wheeler, where most 2-wheelers have to be a better fit for the horse.
Andy –
Finally watched your half halt class, it was very informative. I have a pair that I have been driving for two years, mostly on fields and roads, not arena work. I have been using two different verbals to prepare for gait transition commands, one for upward (ready? with a rising inflection) and one for downward (heavy said quietly) where you are using the halfhalt verbal. Should I switch to using just one verbal for the halfhalt? I have not yet started with the halfhalt lesson plan, so if I am going to switch verbals I should do it before then. Sadly, it might take longer to retrain me than the horses.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the note. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath-water on this one. If you have verbals that your horses understand, there’s no reason to change that communication. Remember that your verbals are there to communicate your intention to your horses. It sounds like you have established that in the verbals that you’ve developed.
You can leverage that quite effectively. For example, if you find that your horses are slowing and losing energy through their downward transitions, you can use your upward rising verbal for the downward transition. This is a tool I use frequently.
Instead of asking the horse to go from the trot to the walk in a descending tone “AND Walk,” I’ll use the more forward acting rising tone “walk UP!.” That communicates that I want to walk transition, but I want it to be forward and energetic.
Of course, as you say, it’s tricky to retrain yourself to ask for something forward while at the same time asking for a gait change that we often associate with a slowing of the action. It takes time, patience, and practice.
I just purchased my first four wheel marathon carriage. It has a single brake. When I tried out a marathon carriage before purchasing mine the only time I used the brake was to slow the carriage down as we were going downhill. I was thinking a good FB live topic would be about brakes and how and when to use them and maybe techniques when doing cones. i know nothing about the subject. Thanks.
How do I pay for the Run a Way lesson.
Can’t find the page.
Thanks.
Hey there, All the online classes are available in the online learning tab. Here’s the direct link to the Runaway Class
I’m a new driver and was wondering what order of your classes or lesson plan I should start with,
I drive a wonderful mini who is very well trained, He knows more than I do. I want to get as good as he is.
There isn’t necessarily a specific order that lesson plans and classes would designed to be taken in. Most of them will simply be applied slightly differently at different levels. I try to make each class or lesson plan accessible enough for beginner drivers, and yet still valuable for advanced drivers.
That said, Developing the Walk is a great fundamental lesson plan, and the lessons in the Stand class carry through to all of the horse’s training.
I’ll be offering a class on the Half Halt in the next couple weeks that everyone should take (even if they’ve taken it before!)
So, go with what strikes your fancy, or with my suggestions. They all tie together really well.
Hi,Andy,
I took your online class on the stand. I have been having my horse stand by all the places he doesn’t like on the property where I board him. The worst place was in front of the shafts lined up to hitch him. I made him stand in front of the cart, behind it, beside it facing it in front and any where else I could think of. Yesterday I took him to the local horse show arena to drive out on the trails around it. And he lined up the first time and stood still to hitch him!!!!! He’s always stood still to hitch but to get him lined up close enough was an ordeal This was the first time it hasn’t taken 6 or 7 tries to get him straight and close enough to hitch. Your class has made a believer out of me. He was also very quiet and relaxed on the trail and walked 90% of the hour plus long drive. A huge improvement. Thank you. P. S. I live in Phoenix, Az. and it’s been in the 70’s. I come from western New York and know what you’re having to deal with. I look forward to taking more of your online classes. Take care.
Great news Cheryl!
I’m glad it worked out for you. I love to hear when people are having success with what they’ve learned here. It makes the hard work and long nights of writing, editing, and producing feel so much more worth while.
Send me a plane ticket to Pheonix!! ๐
I would if you’d give me driving lessons. My horse has been so much calmer. I was out to Horse Lovers Park again but my helper was going to meet me and was very late. So I had to harness and hitch up my self. Always had someone standing at his head, not touching or holding but there. Well, he lined up and was hitched with no problems!!!!!! Waited for me to get in box, then walked away like a gentleman. it was great. All for a little big thing like standing still. Who knew? You did and are kind enough to pass it on to us novices. Thanks again.
Hi, Andy,
I haven’t written to you in quite awhile. Driving has been improving slowly but well. I went to a driving show in March sponsored by Arizona Driving and Carriage Society. Did 2 classes, one an AARP class. Biggest class of the day and we got caught in a corner and Zinn freaked out, tried to run away but I kept him under control and got him trotting nicely again. The next day we did green horse and got a fourth place under Muffy Seaton. Needless to say Zinn was overwhelmed by all the other carraiges and horses. A lot like when Dororthy opened the door to Oz. He is making a lot of small improvements like standing still, (thanks to your online class) for hitching, on the streets, in the arena and dropping the bit while we finish. He threw his head when I first got him. He’s walking more and more, long and quiet, turning nice circles and not over flexing. progress finally. Thanks for all your help. By any chance are you coming to Arizona?
I have a young gelding who I plan to buy a harness for in a few months as Iโm window shopping for harness I came across the brollar/euro collar. Do you have a opinion on what type of turnout they work well for, and what they donโt work well for? Any fitting tips beyond how to measure for a collar? Also would you wait to buy one until the horse is fully mature or are they adjustable enough that they generally could grow with the horse a bit?
Thank you
These are also known as “French” collars. They’ve been around for a long time. They are quite adjustable for the horse’s changing physique.
I’ve used them. In fact there is a picture of my horse wearing one on the front page. I just used it for a year or two to see what I and my horse thought of it.
I didn’t see any great advantage for him in particular. There was nothing wrong with it, but there was no advantage to it for him.
They can be useful for horses that have very “boxy” square shoulders that might be difficult to fit with a traditional breast collar.
The one thing that I’m concern about is the fact that some harness makers are not using a tree in the cap (the top of the collar.) Without the tree, the collar does not distribute the weight evenly on the shoulders.
Could you elaborate on the use of quick release shackles for hooking your traces to the carriage? Is there some sort of guide one could use to figure out what pound force the shackle should be rated depending on your rig? I have a medium Belgian/Welsh cross and a 400 lb marathon carriage that will be driven as a single. Also, how often should they be replaced, and what do you look for as far as wear and tear.
Answering your questions on Facebook Live tonight!
Hi Andy,
I drive 4in hand a lot and I purchased years ago line toggles to hold lines in place. I have never used them as I wasnโt sure how. I mostly have driven in draft shows but last few years I have switched to a marathon style harness and carriage and going through the woods trails with them. Would like to use line toggles clamps. Could you show me how to set? Also is there a preferred way to run lines of leaders? I run inside of wheelers heads …. but have had them get caught up (standard way when driving draft) . There is more and sharper turns in what I am doing now so it has more chance in getting caught up. What is a better way as well as leader lines cross piece (had buckle go through and get caught in saddle ring) lucky for me we tangled in the trees stopped then backed them out and kept going . My team is older and owned them since 1 and 2 years old so they are quite forgiving and trustingโค๏ธ. Thank you for any insight.
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I’d been searching for photos of using rein clamps, but I couldn’t find any. I’ll have to work on getting that for you.
Run the leader reins outside of the wheelers bridles. Things may stay a bit more together for you that way. It’s how most “English” drivers run the reins for that reason.
Many CDE drivers do not have the buckle in the coupling reins on the leaders these days. Instead they have very long billets at the bit end with many holes. The theory is that they can adjust the reins at the bit, and then there’s no buckle to get caught up in a saddle terret or bridle roger ring.
Hi Andy! I have a wonderful arab/standardbred cross driving pony with a lot of potential towards CDE. Thanks to his genetics he would be very easy to fit up, however he has an excess of loose skin in his armpit and gets horrible girth galls… I’ve tried a variety of things to prevent and treat them, and was wondering if you had any suggestions? Thanks!
I had one student with a similar issue on her Trekhenner. She used quarter straps (aka, belly backers or belly breeching) connected to the girth to keep it from riding forward. Might be worth a try.
Hi Andy, my question is about choosing a Marathon carriage for 12.2 hand 600 lb Hackney Pony, Questions about the length, width wheel size, camber and weight. What is the best suspension configuration for weight ratio, Aluminum verses Steel, Just trying to get some ideas from people who have experience with this.
Tough to cover this in a short answer, but I’ll do my best.
I’d shoot for the low 300# mark if it can be achieved.
I prefer steel carriages.
Best suspension is 4 spring elliptical or semi-elliptical.
Wheels as large as you can get while still suiting the pony’s size and keeping the weight reasonable.
I recently saw a very nice Bennington carriage for that size pony. Maybe check them out?
Thank you
What is the safest method to teach former roadster ponies/Amish ponies to flat foot walk without freaking out, leaping in the air, trying to take off on you?
Hello Andy! I’m hoping to get your thoughts on cantering-in-harness; Pleasure Driving. My driving instructor doesn’t believe in teaching this, as things could escalate while moving at this faster gait. To me though that seems counterintuitive as I feel that if my pony is well schooled in cantering (as well as whoa/halt) he would not then become rattled (or worse) for not having already been introduced to the sounds/feel of the cart at this speed. I’m not talking ‘marathon’ pace, just a nice canter when conditions are fine for such. There seems to be much debate on this, from different driving enthusiasts, and would like to know if you would address this in tonights’ live FB chat. Thank you very much!
That’s a really great question to Ann. I’ll be certain to put that on the topics I cover tonight.
Looking forward to the discussion, thank you!
Andy
Here I sit in sunny Arizona for the winter with my boys. We drive or ride most days out in the desert… a far cry from eating around a round bale in Canada. Evenings have found me on my computer listening to your blogs… love them. Many things in my training can improve ie. planning and actually sticking to that plan. How novel :)) Thanks for that kick.
As you know I drive a pair. I really struggle and need some help as to how to communicate with them to stop rubbing on each other when stopped and standing. I have voice corrections that sometimes work and of course plain old work works ie. to tired to rub. Using pressure on the bits ???
Anyway you asked for it… here it is. Hope to see you in Alberta this coming spring for more of Marcoux’s words of wisdom.
Hi Margie,
It’s a common issue. When I have a pair that’s being obnoxious like that, I usually keep the reins a little less slack when we’re standing. When one reaches over to rub, I draw both reins back quickly and firmly. By the nature of the pair reins, they will pick up the offender’s bit first, since if he’s rubbing, he’s got his head way off center. Drawing both reins of the pair back evenly has nice weathervane effect to straighten the horses in the harness. The non-offender doesn’t usually get too much of a jolt because the offender’s rein has been pulled out much longer. The reins only pick up both bits at the end of the draw when both horse’s heads are in the neutral position.
As you mention, the verbal aid along with this goes a long way. Any horse in training with me for a reasonable period of time knows that “Head up!” means standing with his head in the neutral position. That’s a natural carry-over from the stand training.
Also, be certain that you have gullet straps on the bridles adjusted so the bridles are snugly fitting. Rubbing is the most common way to loose a bridle with a pair. Test the fit of the gullet strap by trying to take the bridle off with everything done up (not hitched to the carriage!) If you can take the bridle off without unbuckling the throat latch, it’s too loose.
Hi Andy.
I have a welsh pony that bucks in the shafts. I have put a bucking strap on (and followed the pointers in your video). Itโs a 2 wheeled cart (Frey Rebel) and she seems able to bounce it around and still buck. Thoughts?
This is a good question, but it’s not really equipment related. I decided to answer the question in long-form in a post called “What’s the Bucking Point?”
Take a look there for the full answer.
Where can I find/purchase the bucking strap with the 2 slits in it for the Crupper to fit through? All I find online are solid and they say they fit through the back strap not the crupper? How do you measure to get the right length or is there enough adjustment when you get “Horse size” for a 15-16 hand horse?
The bucking straps from Ideal harness have the crupper slots in them. I believe Iowa Valley Carriage has them as well. There are a few other harness brands that offer them, but I’m having trouble remembering which ones.
The difficult thing about finding this stuff online is that we are a “low tech” industry. Most sellers of harness and carriage driving equipment don’t have the time and resources to create comprehensive websites. When you’re looking for something specific, a phone call goes a lot further than an internet search.
Hi, Andy,
I just found you on you tube and really like your videos. My question is how do you get a horse to stop jiggy jogging and walk. I rescued a horse last April who was starved and abused. His actions tell me he was raced in gymkhana games and used for roping. He’s so nervous in the arena where I board him he jumps and spins, terrified of everything. He’s much better after 7 months of quiet work. I have been ground driving him in harness and he does really well most of the time but will not always walk. He has a great long striding walk. I’ve hitched him to drag poles and he isn’t afraid of them, turns and does change of rein across arena and stops. Any thoughts about getting him to walk. My thought is when we can finally go in the cart and he can move out more he will do better. This has worked when I ride him. Instead of fighting him to walk i let him trot out under control and he comes back to a walk nicely. I’ve lead him around the neighborhood so he gets used to going out.
It’s always a challenge when we have the “keen” horse, no matter what the reason. Personally, I won’t hitch a horse that won’t stand still in full tack, hands-free. So the walking thing is an absolute pre-requisite to driving in my training. That said, I understand what it’s like to have that horse that settles in after some trot work. Perhaps working with some long lining where you can do some regular walk/trot transitions, incrementally increasing the duration of the walk components of the workouts over many sessions may be the right approach.
Taking a step back to the stand training will help tremendously as well. I have not yet met a horse that hasn’t been improved by teaching him to stand through my technique. In fact, the whole training method came from working with difficult horses. When you can get him to stand reliably in the barn, in the ring, out in the yard by complying with your request, rather than managing and restraining, his compliance will be much better with every other activity. I feel a bit like an evangelist why I say that, because it’s rather hard to believe until you’ve experienced it with even the most difficult horses.
Thanks for the input. Where do I find your video or lesson on standing still? He has a real problem with it. I don’t want to fight with him but am at a loss as to how to get him to stand quiet. Please let me know where to find the video (?). Thanks again.
Hi Andy,
It;s been several years but I received an email ad from you the other day and wanted to respond. I live in Harvard and had several driving ponies. I had a few lessons with you, but have sold my carriage and just have my Smuckers deluxe harness. I am trying to sell it and took it up to Rick Fallon last spring. It didn’t sell and I know that you sold the harness shop some years ago, but if you know of anyone who is looking for a really nice, very lightly used pony harness that fits a 12 to 14 h pony, please give them my phone # 978-456-9356 or my email mwgrimm@verizon.net. Thanks.
Hi Mary,
Great to hear from you! Sorry to take so long to reply. I’d suggest doing a search on carriage driving classifieds on Facebook. It seems that’s where everyone is buying and selling things these days. Of course, people will be interested in measurements, so see what you can get on the harness. Usually breast collar length, breeching length, approximate barrel size with the girth hitched on the medium holes. Also, people will want pictures.
Hello Andy,
I am so happy I have come upon your website.
I have been driving, mostly self taught for a number of years.
I find your articles enjoyable and am going to stat your lesson plans.
My question is, I have a very talented pony that had a fantastic natural walk and forward trot at training level
Now as we are competing in Prelim we are lacking impulsion.
What could I be doing to cause this?
Hi Sheri,
Great to hear from you.
I think that it’s important to remember that “impulsion” does not just mean “energy” alone. It is also made up of engagement of the hind quarters and the relaxation of the back. So your pony may have plenty of energy, and even relaxation, but not much engagement.
More often than not at your level this is often a matter of managing your contact. Your contact is critical in recycling energy and putting it to it’s best and highest use.
I think the next place to put your energy would be in creating a nice, reliable half halt. The half halt will allow you to catch your pony’s forward energy, and shape it into engagement.
Take a look at the links I just mentioned above, and I think you and your pony will be on your way!
Do you have any literature on teaching a horse to back, willingly? I have a donkey who is hard to back. It ends up in a pushing war.
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I did an article for Driving Digest this summer on the reinback. I believe it was in the July/August issue #214 .
I may put together a class on that sometime soon, since I’ve had a few requests for coaching on that. Stay tuned! ๐
Hi Andy … when you have something ready on how to teach reinback, I would be very interested in taking an online course. We have two minis that refuse to back up.
Please send me your notices of your classes. Thanks!
In a recent article in Driving Digest it was stated that when driving the short diagonal that you would start your turn across the short diagonal when your front wheel is next to the letter. I have not heard this before and start my turn across the short diagonal as the horse’s nose reaches the letter. Is it more correct to start the turn with the wheel at the letter?
If you start the turn as your horse’s nose arrives at the letter, your wheel will follow and pass by the letter. However, if you were to wait until the wheel is next to the letter, the turn would end up being late, since it takes a moment for the initiation of the turn to actually create a turn. Especially on a short diagonal, you’d be well past the line between the two letters.
Technically speaking, the rulebook states “Art. 522.7 – A movement which must be carried out at a certain point of the arena should be done at the moment when the horseโs nose is above this point.”
So on a short diagonal from E to M, that’s pretty easy to accomplish. In the other direction (from M to E), it’s a little more challenging because the turn collapses from a 10m radius to about an 8m radius. On the upside, you’re usually at a walk when that comes up on a test.
In the big picture, judges are not out there looking at your drive with a sexton and compass in hand. Do your best to get your horse on the line between the letters, and focus on maintaining a good rhythm at the gait you’re in. If you’re off by a foot or two here or there, it’s not going to be worth noting. If it does come up in the comments, you were probably well off the mark. Go back and look at a video of the test.
Thank you. I was surprised to see in the article that the turn was to “start” with the wheel at the letter when cutting across the diagonal. I have always followed the same rule you referenced from the ADS rulebook. – Al
Hello,
Just learned about reinboards and saw your video on how to make one.
Having said this, do you have a video on how to use one and what I should look for in each task?
I really love the idea and want to use it to the best advantage.
Thank you
Certainly! Take a look at Reinsmanship Through Muscle Memory.
The Runaway, you mentioned how to hold the horse’s head down and having someone take the harness off, in a specific way. My question is, if I am alone and find myself in a situation that my cart turned over, my horse is laying on the ground, I’m alright and able to get my knees on the neck of my horse as close to her pole as I can, how do I get the harness off my horse and the cart detached? A dilemma I hope to never find myself in, but if that should happen, I’d like to have some idea how I can safely do this.
Thank you,
Frieda Moore
Interesting hypothetical dilemma! I think if I were presented with that situation, I’d try to get the horse still and calm first. Often when a horse is down and is compelled to stay down, they become resigned to it. You’d surprised how quietly a horse will lie in place after being convinced that it’s the right thing to do. Sometimes you actually have to convince the horse that it’s safe to get up once you’ve untangled the mess.
Of course, as I said in the class, every situation is unique, so you just have to use your best judgment when you find yourself in that circumstance.
When working through a lesson plan like the Half Halt Lesson plan for the second or third timeโฆif you have reached exercise 7 on the first day for example (and now introduced actual half halts before you halt) do you ignore the fact that you now know what a half halt is during the earlier exercises (like exercise 1-4) on the second or third day? Or, do you now execute a half halt even on the earlier exercises? I started working on the half halt lesson plan yesterday with a new pony and went to do the half halt lesson again today to move further through the exercises and the question came to mind about when to now do the half halts.
Treat the lesson plan (any lesson plan really), as a continuum. Each time you return to the lesson plan, you build upon the skills from the last workout. You don’t have to approach the lesson plan as if driving it for the first time each time you drive it. Each time you drive it, the skills will become more confirmed. So go ahead and use your half halts when you return to the lesson plan. With each workout, they will become more defined with lesson effort.