Do you have questions about carriage driving or horse training that you just can’t find the answer to? This page is for you!
Sometimes it’s tough to find the resources you need to further your carriage driving education. While there may be a lot of information out there, it can be tough to find that one answer you’re searching for.
Rather than sorting through page after page on social media or rulebooks, you can just ask your question here. I’ll reply here, and I may take it one step further by answering your question in a blog or video post.
You can ask question about training principles, carriages, harness, competitions or what ever else you’re curious about. See what others have asked, and post your question below.
I recently purchased a marathon carriage – now I’m trying to figure out what the distance should be from the swing tree to the back of the horse. The shafts are able adjustable and this fit a 16.2 hand horse, and will be used on a young growing 15.1 hand horse. I was at a clinic and them mentioned there is a distance, and now I can’t find what it should be. The horse in question has a long low ground covering trot.
thank you!
Hoe do you ask a driving horse to canter on a specific lead?
Hi Andy, I’m new to carriage driving, and would love to explore CDE and the marathon portion ( looks like fun and I think my pony would enjoy it). Where do I begin?
Thanks,
Maureen
Hi Andy,
I’m starting to long line my 42″ pony who drives. Would you recommend using the turrets or threading the lines through the tugs with the outside rein around his butt?
Hi Andy,
My 5 yr old haflinger has started a habit I am unsure how to correct. When we go off farm he backs quickly when I ask for a stand. His whoa is great but when he figures out that we will be standing not walking on he starts to back quickly. How should I correct this?
Thanks! Abbie
Hi Andy; I recently bought a 8 yo 14.2 hand QH/SB: Connor; who may have some driving experience. I am 62 years old and no longer ride (bad knee); but in my earlier years I was an event rider competing up through the Preliminary Level. I have 2 riders who work him under saddle; so he is in fair shape. I would like to get started and learn to drive properly. I want to give Connor a proper start. So here is my question, I have been working on lunging Connor and he will start out but then he appears to get confused and frustrated. When this happens, I add another web lunge line and work him in a driving fashion and he appears to get the basics of walk, in fact he appeared to be relieved, walk, halt, circles-20-25 meters, etc. Should I give up on lunging and just drive him on foot with a lunge caveson and surcingle? I do plan to buy your lesson plans and was wondering the best one to start with.
Thanks, ElizaB
My friend insists that holdback straps should be passed around the trace before threading through footman’s loop & tying.
Is this bad/good, activity-dependent or just a matter of taste?
Thanks for your help.
Should the trace length for each pony alway be the same when driving a pony pair. One pony is significantly longer bodied then the other.
Hello Andy, I am a disabled driver, my mobility is challenged and I use a cane. I have a Bennington 4 wheeled carriage and I have great difficulty getting in. I would like to find a carriage that is safe, comfortable and easier to get into. Also perhaps not quit so high up. Do you have any suggestions. I live in Nova Scotia,Canada and wonder if you might know of any organizations that are disabled drivers. Many thanks.
Hi Andy! How do you clean and condition a russet harness properly? Thanks!
I have a driving pony that is very heavy on her forehand. She hangs her head so low that I can’t see her pole. I can’t get her to track up at the trot. I have tried several things. Bits, driving her really forward, transitions, spirals. So far nothing works. She Bob’s her head also.
i’m at a loss. Any suggestions?
Hi Andy this is a question from an author who knows nothing about horses and carriages and carts of any kind. I am hoping you can help me without hooting with laughter. I am writing a book set in a fantasy medieval type world and I have a scene whereby people escaping from some dire circumstances take off in a horse and cart. The driver of the cart needs to release the horse from its traces in a hurry, before the cart continues forward into a rotten door. I’ve written it like this from the grounds that I love animals and don’t want the horse to die – but is it actually possible to release a horse from a harness like this in an emergency? (Otherwise the horse will have to cop it!)
Hello,
I have a question not about training but about equipment. I am looking for a quality set of synthetic team harness for marathons. Where can I find them?
Thank you for your time and assistance,
Allison
Hi andy. I have a pony who was a carriage driving show pony. Very showy, high head carriage…look at me!! but we are now doing driving trials. This pony is very lazy at home but at shows he lights up, dances etc…does ‘look at me’ trotting. This makes it very difficult to train at home as its difficult to get him forward. He either ignores the whip or naps when I use it. He is a lovely pony with no malicious bones but he certainly has he evasion techniques down. For exampe if you drop your contact for a second he will downward transition. If you ask for halt everyone on the carriages needs airbags. How can I work on fixing this. I have been watching your half-halt video. Any tips on getting some power for forward from this pony…I know he can…he just chooses when. I’d like to choose when. i..e when i need to lengthen in my dressage test or show a few strides of medium trot.
Hi Andy I have difficulty getting into a marathon carriage due to bad knees. My training cart has a lower step so is easy to mount. Are there any marathon carriages that have an easy entry system or, if I had a step added to my marathon carriage, where should it be placed to avoid it catching on things?
Hello, my daughter is showing in her first 4H driving show in a week at fair. I never showed in the sport of driving but she’s been working all summer. My question is how do you properly do the salute with the whip before entering the class. Seems like such a simple thing but I can’t find a video to show me how its done…. I’ve read through how to do it in print and I’m not positive I fully understand as I’m a visual learner…. also do you do it when you leave as well? She is showing in pleasure driving and reinsmanship. Thank you!
My horse will not pick up correct canter lead on the left rein in the carriage but canters correctly on long reins, any suggestions please thanks
I WOULD LIKE TO PURCHASE THE REIN HANDLING COURSE IS THIS NOT POSSILBE? THANKS JENNIFER
Hi I just watched you video on bucking strap fitting, is there any way to use/fit a bucking strap on one pony of a pair? I drive a pair of minis and one has a tendency to do an excitable little buck but in so doing has got a leg over the trace! Not good! Thanks Gill
Hi Andy, In the new dressage tests, it asks for a halt with front axel at “G” (for example). if driving a 2 wheeled vehicle, do I stop with the axel at G? Thank you
Hi Andy,
I have a new horse that was previously an Amish field horse that was probably used as part of a team.
My question concerns tracking around a right hand turn.
When I first got him and ground drove him at a trot in a left-hand direction he did everything right. When I changed directions, he would jump/leap with his head outside the circle almost bolting. He would settle down and continue on but with his head still outside. He pretty much got over that after a couple of times of ground driving.and does much better.
Now that I have him hooked to the two wheeled training cart, I notice that when we take a right hand turn at a walk that he crosses his left leg over the right almost side-passing.
Do you have any suggestions on how to train him out of this habit? I was wondering if maybe using a side draw rein on the left side could possibly help. What are your thoughts on this?
Connie Johnson
superior WI
Hi Andy. my friesian was driven as a 3 and 4 yr old, hes now 14 and i want to put him back into harness,
what is your way of attaching a tyre for him to pull in the round pen
Hello Andy, I am trying to get set up to do remote coaching with Pixio/Pixem. I purchased the Pixio because there is a software upgrade that will give it the capabilities of a Pixem (using a cell phone for camera) and still be able to use a real camera. Also remote coaching requires additional equipment on Pixio but does not require a subscription as with Pixem. Is there anywhere that someone who is technically challenged can find out how to set up live coaching with this device? I also don’t know what I might need — wi-fi? ceecoach? etc. I am hoping this will broaden availability of driving coaches that are out of state since there is a limited choice locally. Do you coach virtually?
(BTW Pixio and Pixem are the same price. The software upgrade is about $180. I plan to use Pixio with a cell phone for now.)
Hi, Andy! Do you know much about historical horse-hitching equipment (18th and early 19th century) as far as what they called the parts, and what they looked like compared to modern? I’ve Googled images but haven’t found much in detail. I’m not a carriage driver myself, I’m a writer who’s researching- but I love horses and this blog! 🙂
So we’re working on the stand in the box. I’m wondering what I can add to the exercise to train the pony to stand still after he’s hitched to the carriage and I am getting in it. He stands still for hitching but often takes off as soon as I head back to get in the carriage. Then no reigning can stop him, he gets so excited. Maybe rig him up without the carriage and then do the exercise?
Hi Sue,
Thanks for your question, sorry it went unnoticed. Generally, these questions are best suited to posted to the class page comments section, but I’ll answer it here all the same.
You are correct in your idea of breaking the exercise down into smaller segments. Bring him fully harnessed to the carriage, and do not hitch, just do the box exercise. End when that is successful.
Stand hitched; Fully hitched, with an assistant. Pretend you are going to get in, but really just mill about by the side. Have your assistant back up your verbal commands by putting him back in the box.
You may have to to very very small incremental steps with each session to eliminate the launch-mode behavior. The trick is to end each session with success, no matter how small that success may be.
Thanks…didn’t see the class comment section. I’ll post there in future.
In stand lesson #1, how long should the pony be required to stand on the box?
I noticed you didn’t suggest using the word whoa if the pony starts to wander out of the box. Is this not a good word to use in this situation? I just started listening to the course teaching standing and haven’t been out with my pony to try anything yet, but my pony is not very good or consistent at stopping during longeing, and also at stop signs when driving. He’ll stop, but then gets all antsy and wants to go too soon.
Hi Andy
I ordered both your lessons on rein handling styles. Very informative. I prefer to drive like I ride with single reins. .The rein to the bit coming from between pinky and ring fingers. How do I then position the reins for single hand driving -As is required in some driving dressage tests?
I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you.
Diane
Most people us the Hungarian Rein Position for the single handed movements because it is the most intuitive, and provides good leverage over both reins, especially in the upper levels when there are changes in direction within the single handed movements.
There aren’t rules about which handling position you use for those movements, so using the Coachman’s position, which is the base position used in the Achenbach method works well too.
The key is to practice those positions for more than is simply required for the test at hand (pardon the pun.) Developing the ability to handle the reins in multiple positions gives you more tools in your reinsmanship toolbox. That boils down to greater communication!
I migrate between all of the rein positions throughout the course of a drive regardless of the type of driving I am doing.
Hi Andy! I’m hoping this is the right forum for an answer to a technical/historical question about carriages and harnesses …
Thank you!
Uh, I’m a little confused by the question, but I’ll take a stab at it.
If you needed to bring an extra horse along, you could easily pony the horse from the carriage. If he was similar size and shape as the horse in the shafts, you could use the same harness for either horse. Then again, if you had two horses, you’d likely drive them as a pair.
On the other hand, there was a time when driving tandem to the hunt allowed the hunt horse to travel unencumbered to the hunt as the leader in the tandem, since the wheeler is the one to do all the work. That was, in actual fact, more of a short lived fashion statement as anything else.
250 years ago, travel by carriage was quite the exception to the rule. By far, the majority of people traveled by foot. A few traveled by horseback, and the rarer few aristocrats traveled by servant driven carriages.
150 years ago, the family horse & carriage was more common among the middle class. If there were a longer road trip, you simply traveled in stages, resting yourself and your horse in between.
Thank you!
So we are having some debate on how far away from the carriage a horse should be when driving a carriage that you have to work the break and the harness has no breeching or shaves . Since they are essentially pushing into the collar to start the vehicle will the amount of links you drop make a difference in how easy or hard it is to pull? Once there is tension on the tugs would it make a difference if you had no links dropped or would it be easier for the horse to pull if he was closer say if you dropped 4 links?
There’s no specific, ideal distance from a carriage, and in most circumstances, the distance in front of the carriage wouldn’t make it harder or easier to pull. I suppose if the singletree were very, very low, it might make a small difference.
Long lining question…..i use a surcingle with a gripper or a harness back pad and crupper. Lines are web lunge lines. I start with inside line directly to my hand to help the horse understand this new way of lunging. However, when I move to both lines in terrets the back pad is always pulled to the inside. I am doing something wrong! Ideas?? Suggestions???
Your pony needs some withers (teasing, of course!)
Some surcingles have pads with a channel in the middle that help the surcingle stay in place on either side of the withers. Most good driving saddles have those pads as well.
Even with those pads, you have to cinch up the girth just about as tight as you can to resist the rotational force applied by the long lines, especially if the contact is heavy.
If the surcingle you’re using doesn’t have those pads, it may not matter how much you tighten the girth. It will almost always rotate.
Try your driving saddle with the tunback & breeching removed.
Also, I don’t remember if you’ve signed up for the Long Lining 101 class, but I cover long lining equipment suggestions in that class.
Dear Andy.
I have stopped the sport of driving a few years ago, and have a few items for sale someone may truly use and treasure. Do you have an ad page or site for sale items? I owned two Friesians and loved to carriage drive. Denver, CO used to host the Friesian Regionals, several pleasure shows, participated with two carriage clubs, and had the pleasure of driving, “Traditional Day of Driving,” events.
Please advise me as I have two beautiful K-Collars, patent leather, brass hames, and one new driving bit.
Thank You,
Sharron
It seems these days most people are using social media classified ads for these types of things. That’s the most efficient way to get photos and descriptions in front of the most people interested in the sport. Look up carriage driving classified groups on your favorite social media site. I think Facebook probably has the most carriage drivers out of all the options.
I read your article about using blinders or not. I think I have one of those horses (a 14.3 hand stocky walking horse) who prefers driving without blinders. I trained him through all of the steps in an open bridle and he is now pulling a Pioneer Haflinger Trail Forecart around in our field and up and down the half mile long driveway. He has no problems and seems to be enjoying it. I started ground driving him with the blinders to see how he would feel about that. He was much less confident and clearly wanted to be able to see around himself. He eventually pulled the Forecart with blinders on in the same field, and he had a small, short lived spook which he has never done before while hitched. Recently I drove him with the open bridle on the small driving obstacle course that a friend has. He was fine, although he looked at everything with calm interest and was not as focused as I would have liked. So I am thinking about the half blinders you mentioned in your article. Would you recommend them, and, if so, where do I find them? thanks!, Mara
Hi Mara,
As I’ve mentioned in an answer to a similar question on the “Blinders or Not” post, blinders can be useful in helping a horse focus on their work. That said, you really have to choose on a horse by horse, and sometimes circumstance basis.
From the limited context of your question, it sounds like you’ve given the answer to your question in the second sentence:
“I think I have one of those horses who prefers driving without blinders.”
It’s a little difficult to guess how much time over which the experiences you relate have taken. If, as they sound, they are individual experiences here and there, I’d say your horse is doing great!
Driving “off campus” through obstacles, your horse should look at things with calm interest. It shows a thoughtful, confident horse. You really couldn’t ask for a much better result than that!
Time and experience is what your horse needs more than a tack change.
If, you find over the course a full season, you are having difficulty keeping your horse’s attention where you want it, then perhaps, half-blinders may be worth trying. That said, working on lesson plans that encourage your horse to focus, such as “The Training Dial“, or “Transitions on the 8“, may be all your horse needs to learn how to focus on the task at hand.
Finally, if you decide you want to try half blinders:
I have gotten half blinders from IdealHarness.com in the past. Most other harness dealers or manufacturers will likely offer them as well, such as IVC Carriage, Driving Essentials, or where ever you purchased your harness.
Hopefully that helps!
Take care,
Andy
Thanks for your quick response, Andy! You have given me the confidence to continue with the open bridle for now. I am new to driving, as is my horse, and we rely on the expertise of others. Prior to teaching Ringo to drive, we have been doing dressage, formation riding, obstacle courses and miles of trail riding in the Gila National Forest, so he has been exposed to a lot of things in an open bridle. However, I have read and been told that blinders are a “must”. So I have been torn between my knowledge of my horse, my relationship with him, what feels right to us both, and the advice of others with far more driving experience. Yours was the first article that I’ve come across that talked about instances where driving with an open bridle was appropriate. I look forward to doing the lesson plans you recommended. I really appreciate your information and support.
Warm regards, Mara
Happy Sunday,
I purchased a Kutzman Light Cob this summer and it had a bent shaft. I just got this back from my machines and I have four flat tires. Since the Kutzman is made in Poland the tires do not have PSI in US terms. I cannot find anyone who can tell me how many pounds of pressure my tires should be at. I even reached out to a dealer and they had no clue. Any suggestions? The tire shop put 20lbs on a front tire and now I am doing the rear tire and I am up to 40 lbs and it sill looks slightly flat. I can find nothing on the web. Also it would be really cool to have a carriage maintenance video. Thank you for everything you do. I am looking so forward to finally driving.
There probably isn’t just one answer to this question. The tires are likely motorcycle tires for multi terrain bikes. They probably have a tolerable range from 25 – 70 psi.
The softer the inflation, the more comfy the ride, but that comes with a significant risk. Softer tires are less stable and more likely to lead to a turn over in a high speed turn.
The firmer the inflation, the easier the tire will roll. A firmer tire is also less likely to cave from side force in a turn. Of course, you give up a little comfort with a harder tire.
I’d experiment with something in 50psi range, then go from there. Just be sure you inflate the tires equally, and check the tire pressure regularly.
Hi Andy,
I just stumbled upon your website and will look into your “stand” series of videos tomorrow, as it is late at night here now.
A few months ago I purchased a wee standardbred. After 33 races, he was sacked for getting too uptight at the races. He was never actually classified as unruly. Prior to purchase, I watched videos of his few standing starts (he mainly had mobile starts) and he stood quietly in all of them and did not once rear or react to horses rearing around him. I decided to buy him as he had proven quiet, sensible and downright lazy as a newly ridden horse. I felt if I developed a relationship with him riding, then we could slip into pleasure harness in the same low key manner.
Unfortunately, his physique is that he only has 14″ of space on his back to correctly fit a saddle. My vet suggested riding bareback, but at my age, my hips do not allow for that!
Instead I have spent our time working on manners, trotting on the lunge (he raced as a pacer) and learning to balance into canter and over poles.
He has developed muscle, and is in excellent condition now. I have rarely seen a shiner horse and he has not been washed. If he was a cow, he would be described as “blooming”. He is feeling good.
He will stand tied up, but has his own agenda when loose. I have spend hours, days, weeks and months (2) with him multiple times a day, in all sorts of locations, yard, paddock, garden etc…repositioning him if he moves when grooming or tacking or just teaching stand. I refuse to tie him as I feel he needs to concentrate on what I am wanting and stand if I ask. He has improved, yet I feel he does it on sufferance. Initially he disliked people and would not switch on to any form of connection, Now he seeks attention, but switches off more than I would like.
Last week, I began long reining him. All was fine in the huge round yard I have. After some days, we progressed to the drive/garden which he has been grazing in for months due to it being the only grass around as we are heading into a drought. It was instantly obvious that ‘stand” was a huge issue in an open area, especially when facing away from the other horses. When he tries to go forward I let him walk into the rein, he stops and tries to turn both ways, he paws the ground, he backs up. I remain calm and try to get him back in position but as we work quietly through it, he winds up. He will spin and try to bolt past me. He will rear, then buck. I wait until he rests a back leg, before moving on and asking again. He seems to get worse and more insecure each time. He gets jibby and wants to go to the yard where the other horses are. I have tried lunging him outside the yard, then walking away and asking for stand. When he gets upset, we go back to the lunge in the place he wants to be. I end the lesson when he stands where I want, I then take the gig saddle and long reins off in that spot as a reward. I have noticed he is happy to stand like an old nag as I unharness him, in the same spot he was rearing and upset, moments before.
I understand he has always been harnessed, moved off to a workout or race for a shortish period of time, then been unharnessed.
He is not used to doing nothing in harness. He is not used to going towards home, then away from it again countless times. He thinks when you head towards home, the workout is over.
I am wondering if I would be better off searching for a horse that has raced less? One who is not so ingrained to Go, Go, Go…? I am not willing to put him between the shafts if he will not stand when asked.
Have you worked with horses like this before, with success?
PS. I live on 11 acres in town and am wanting to drive on back streets, as well as paddocks. I live near a racecourse also and pony club grounds. I would like him to help me break in my 3 year old large pony, by tying him behind and beside the cart as I work the standardbred. However, I am beginning to feel, this may not be the right horse for the job. He is so chilled out when ridden, yet so angry and stressy when long reined.
He will rear when leading also if excited.
Thanks, in advance.
Hi Andy,
I am working with a mini who is new to driving and we are working through your standing class. He is beginning to stand but he will then start bobbing his head, he is not turning his head or moving, just bobbing his head. He will also do this while driving sometimes when asked to stand. Hopefully I did not miss the answer in the video but what would be your suggestion for correcting this head bobbing.
Thank you.
Sheila
I would also like to know an answer to this question.
Hi Sheila,
The head bobbing is just a way for him to do something while he’s being asked to do nothing. It’s kind of a release of energy on his part. It’s actually a good sign, since he knows he has to be still, but he just can’t stand the idea of being completely still. He’s figured out that there’s a place where he can do everything you’re asking him to, but still have his fidget.
I’d say a bob or two, and you can let it go. If gets really repetitive, you can give him a verbal correction accompanied by a sharp tug on the lead rope. Be consistent with what you use for a verbal, like “be still”, or “stop!”
In the carriage you can use the same verbal with a quick tug on the rein or touch with the whip. As long as he understands that he’s being asked to stand at the moment, he won’t take either of those as an indication
to move. If he does move, correct him. He’ll eventually learn that it’s a correction rather than a request.
Over time you’ll be able to limit, or eliminate the behavior. It’s just time, patience, and persistence!
I hope that helps!
Andy
Thanks Andy, yes it does. What’s funny about all of this, it is building my patience too:)
I read the articles “Get it Straight” and “Connecting with Contact”. They are very helpful for me. There is one aspect of contact that I am uncertain about, following the horse’s head movement at the walk. When I ride at the walk with contact my hands pick up the rhythm of the horse and there is a lot of hand movement required to maintain steady contact but it seems to work out just fine. When I drive at the walk it is not as easy to pick up the rhythm with my hands. The horse’s head must move the same when driving as it does when riding. I am thinking that when riding my body is also moving with the horse which might account for the greater hand movement required. The same problem does not seem to exist at the trott because the horse’s head does not move at the trott, right? What are your thoughts on the subject Andy?
I think Gipsy and I made progress on my contact shortcoming during our driving session this morning. I noticed in a picture that I was holding the reins in a different grip (out the top over the index / pointer finger with thumb on top) than I utilize when riding. I changed my grip on the reins to come out of the bottom of my hand with the pinky finger being the last part of my hand touching the reins. My idea was that this would allow more sensitivity on my part as the pinky is not as strong as the index / pointer. Last night I watched a Coachman’s Delight Facebook video on “how much contact?” and might have gotten the idea from watching that video. I was surprised that the new rein grip improved my feel quite a bit and my hand was able to follow the horses head movement at a walk much better.
Hi Johnny,
I’m glad you happened upon the video that answered your question. You are a great “self-guided” tour of improving your driving! I’m glad you are finding the answers that you’re looking for.
It’s kind of fun to read your experiences, then notice that you’ve followed the exact path that I would have pointed you toward.
I have been training a 3 1/2 year old large Mini to drive. I have been working with her for three months now. I have done everything in an open bridle and she has been very good. Dragging the PVC pipe drag I made and even leading her with the cart on but it was 2 and a half months leading up to these things. She was so good about everything I introduce the blinders. WOW it was like her brain fell out of her head! Can’t do anything with the blinders on. I have trained with an open bridle then going to blinders in the past with other mini’s I have trained and no issues at all. Now I don’t know what to do. Start all over with everything but with the blinders on and go from there. Is this what I should do?
Hi Patricia,
It sounds like you have a great base started with your mini. It certainly sounds like you’ve found out pretty clearly that she does not like having any restriction of her vision.
Personally, if she’s going as well as you say, I’d just keep going with her training in the open bridle. Not only is there nothing to be gained by introducing the blinders, but it sounds like you may end up losing ground in her training.
Of course, you should be extra careful when it comes to hitching in the open bridle. Give a few extra sessions of false hitching with the help of a friend managing the carriage while you lead, then ground drive her. Provided that all goes as planned, it may just be that she far prefers to be in an open bridle.
In American Driving Society, and U.S.E.F carriage driving competitions, blinders are not required. Rules in other venues may be different.
If you are obligated to use blinders by some rulebook, then yes, you may have to start from the ground up. It may be worth it to continue putting more miles on her in the open bridle first to continue to build her confidence. As she becomes more comfortable with all of her work, introducing something new will be less disruptive.
Finally, see what you can do to find blinders that provide the widest field of view possible. If you go from an open bridle, to blinders that rest very close to the eyes with significant restrictions on her vision, it can be very unsettling.
Take a look at “Blinders on Not?” for more discussion on this subject.
I am sort of in the same situation. However, in my case I’m rebuilding confident with my mini mare after a traumatic cart accident last summer. She was a solid driving mare for 8 years, then a deer spooked her, and she became tangled in cart & harness. She’s now scared of what she can’t see. I’m taking it super slow and then even more slow with her from ground one. I also took your ‘teaching your horse to stand’ course and that has been wonderful! !!!! We are in Step 3, standing while harnessed. She is calm, no tension while in a training bridle, but with the blinders on her regular bridle, the tension is back. I have not attempted to hitch her to a cart yet. I believe that is still months away. I’m told that I would be crazy to hitch a horse without blinders, especially if I’m trying a ‘comeback’ with an accident victim. But she’s as different as night and day, when she has free vision as opposed to using blinders. Similar to your rely for Patricia, I have been planning to continue to rebuild confidence the open bridle before eventually transitioning to her bridle with blinders. And then hopefully the cart. I would be very interested in hearing your opinion about keeping her in an open bridle, even when back in the cart….considering her accident. I will also look up the article “blinders or not” that you mentioned in Patricia’s reply.
Thank you! I don’t have enough of words to say how beneficial the ‘standing’ lessons have been in rebuilding my mare’s driving foundation. I felt pretty hopeless about things, but I had my first moment of hope the evening I took the online course with you. I’m so grateful my friend Julie Good purchased the class for me as a gift.
Hi Andy,
After selling all of my trained horses except my 25 year old first ever horse Juliette, I’m now down to a 7 year old 15.3 H black Holsteiner mare, Stacey, who has only trail ridden (but is super sweet and kind) , her slightly hyper 3 yr old 15.3 H black daughter, Joan Jett, who still acts up slightly with the farrier, and a 3 year old 15.2H flaxen red dun half Holsteiner filly, Judy Hopps, who is super duper ground broke, and follows you right into a horse trailer with just a rope around her neck.
I want to train the 3 of them as a pair and a spare. My 25 yr old will not be helpful in any of this — she has blatantly told me I could carriage train her descendants, but not her :). I used to ground drive my 20-30 yr old black Standardbred mare with youngsters as a pair, with a side rein to keep the youngster from nipping my ever patient old mare, and that worked like a charm. Then I’d drive everyone single. I have since sold all carts and wagons before moving to Oregon. I still have some old harness (including one synthetic), and a good driving whip, so I’m all set for at least ground driving in a pair again, and hooking up a single to a cart. Just need a cart.
I now have 32 acres, some flat (but muddy), and some very steep (but a gravel drive through it). Due to being in the process of moving years ago, I missed out on a huge tax rebate on a $6K electric golf cart, that I would have converted to a “pairs wagon with electric assist and brakes,” to train horses with, and help them deal with a super steep hill (steep enough to make vehicles groan on one stretch).
Now that I’m starting from scratch again, what do you suggest for a wagon (w/ some electric assist ??), to help young horses (in a pair) condition on steep hills, with a well groomed gravel drive, with level grass or blacktop to turn around on at either end? What tires should get? Ideally something that can navigate occasional deep Portlandian mud.
Also, do you know anyone near Portland, OR who can help me get going again? In Michigan I had my buddy Karl, and we helped each other train each other’s horses — we successfully converted his ex-sulky racing mare to a “second weddings only” carriage horse on roads business :).
I’d love a tutorial on
Hi Anya,
It sounds like you have a fun project there!
Since all three of the horse are green to driving, I personally would focus most of my attention on getting each of them going as really solid single horses first. Getting them all comfortable, confident, and fit as individuals will make any combination of them as pairs more successful.
For the slightly hyper Joan Jet, I’d spend quite a bit of quality time on her Stand Training. In fact, all three of the horses will benefit greatly from that training. It really helps the horses understand how to focus on you when they’re in work mode.
With that in mind, I’d be looking for a reliable single carriage first. A single carriage will always have utility in your barn for as long as you have driving horses.
4-wheel carriages are more versatile than 2-wheel carriages, since they can be hitched to horses and ponies of varying sizes. That said, they tend to be more expensive.
If you really know you’re going to spend most of your time driving pairs, then you could go for a good 2-wheeler like the Frey Sprint, or similar.
Of course, you can find carriages that can be used both as single and pair carriage. Carriages like that tend to slightly on the heavy side for singles, and light for the pair.
As a single carriage, you probably wouldn’t want to attack the super-steep grades, especially when the horse is green. Work on moderate terrain would be fine.
As a pair carriage, a green pair hitched to what is essentially a single carriage, can over-power the carriage and driver easily (thus the notes on single driving first!) However, that lighter weight would be nice for going up those steep grades.
For most carriages like this, changing the hardware from single to pair takes about 10-15 minutes. That’s handy, but not super handy. So driving one horse single in the morning, and the pair in the afternoon is definitely doable, but kind of a pain. Thus, having a “single only” carriage is much more convenient.
In your situation, it sounds like pneumatics would be handy for the mud and terrain. Many of the modern carriages from Poland come with option to be used both with hard tires, and pneumatics, so switching from one to the other is similar to changing a car tire.
I’d look for smooth-tread tires for less rolling resistance. The enduro style knobby tires are great for traction, but they make the carriage harder to pull in deep footing, and sometime can get “grabby” with their traction in fast work. Believe it or not, there times when you rather those wheels slide!
The carriage that I’ve used over the years often that fits this bill is the Max I. It’s a pretty good “all arounder” type carriage. It’s only downside is that the pair adapter may not come with a live evener, something I consider critical for training pairs. Of course, many trainers do not, so… (well that’s another article to write!)
There are lots of other carriage options out there. You’ll just have to shop around.
Don’t obsess over weight too much! The horse in the equation is quite literally the “horse power.” With good training and proper conditioning, horses can comfortably pull carriages that are close to or equal their own body weight. Don’t forget, they are drawing that weight on roller bearings, not carrying the weight.
I have to admit, I’m completely amused by the idea of using a golf cart as a wagon! Practically speaking, horses don’t need assistance pulling a carriage.
Hopefully this helps more than it confuses!
~Andy
Anya,
You might have gotten this sorted out already, but there are a couple of people who do carriage work in the Portland Metro area. Depending on what you are looking for, there is a CDE driver in Vancouver who is helping me with my baby thoroughbred and another out in Beavercreek who does more pleasure driving related work. I could get you their contact info if you would like (my email thoroughbredrider@gmail.com). Always fun to know that there is another person locally who is driving.
Welcome to Oregon and happy trails.
Thanks for the input Bridget! It’s great to see that carriage drivers can connect this way.
can you recommend any resources on furling a tandem whip?
The only thing that comes to mind right away is in the book “The Art of Driving” by Max Pape (chapter 17, page 81-86.) Unfortunately that book is out of print, so it may be hard to get your hands on a copy.
I’ll put it on my to-do list for videos to make.
Hi,
I thought I saw something on correcting a counter bend. Was that an online lesson or something that I saw at one time? If so I’m i able to take that class now? Thanks much!
Counter-bending is in indication of a loss of the horse’s balance through a turn. So the antidote to counter-bending is correct balance.
You can help your horse establish better neutral balance by improving your Half Halt. That will set your horse up for more successful turns before he enters the turn. For that, take a look at https://coachmansdelight.com/half-halt-class/
The next thing to do is improve your horse’s balance through the turn by improving your use of The Outside Rein. https://coachmansdelight.com/outside-rein-class/
Here is the author’s (Hardy Zantke) response posted in CDL ——- Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:53:34 +0000
From: Hardy Zantke
Subject: Driving the diagonal
Good question (and thanks for reading the rule book & my articles and for your compliment.) So since you refer to my opinion, let me explain it further the way I see it:
Yes, you have a good point, pointing to Art. 522.7 “A movement which must be carried out at a certain point of the arena should be done at the moment when the horse’s nose is above this point.” I think the word “movement” in there might be a bit misleading. I think it should refer more to “change of pace” – however, even there we can argue about if it should not be better called for change of gait – as there it’s clear. A change of gait should be completed when the nose reaches that point. Example, Halt at X, or the transition from trot to walk at A. Whereas just the change of pace = the transition from working trot to lengthened trot on the diagonal one certainly cannot have completed when the nose reaches the starting point of that diagonal. On the other hand, the end of the lengthening on the other end of the diagonal, yes, which should be completed by the time one reaches the end of the diagonal. So it’s tricky and difficult how to put that properly into the rule book (thus my articles to explain – at least how I see it).
The yellow pages help a little more as Article 954.15 spells out “Transitions: Change of page must be made smoothly and promptly with the Horse remaining in balance and on the bit. A transition must be completed as the nose of the Horse arrives at the prescribed marker, unless otherwise stated” But also here, see my explanations above, that again does not really apply properly to the lengthening on the diagonal, right? We don’t have the lengthening “completed” when we have the nose at the marker where we start the diagonal. We only start the lengthening after we are straight on that diagonal.
The yellow pages go on with Art 954.16 “Change of Pace and Movement: Changes of pace and movement are made when the heads of the leaders reach the point indicated in the test” which doesn’t really help us any further and has the same shortcoming as Art 522.7
To further point out that it really refers more to the change of gait – and perhaps also pace – except the upward transition on the diagonal – and not to the change of directions, let me also point to just always the second movement: You come down center line after your halt and salute at X and then the test calls for either going left or right at C, right? But we NEVER reach C with the nose of the horse, nor must the leaders, we ALWAYS turn earlier!
So that darn “when the nose reaches the point” really can only refer to change of gait – and mostly also pace – except with the start of the diagonal – and does not refer to change of direction. At least that’s how I see it. All the best & happy driving Hardy
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How do I determine what size cart, shaft, wheel size I need for my horse (large pony)?
There’s a handy little chart on American Driving Society website that has a decent guide for Driving Vehicle Measurements.
I would use that as “guide” rather than a fixed formula. Ponies and horses come in all shapes and sizes, so you can’t really say A+B will always equal C exactly.
There’s more latitude with 4-wheel carriages than there is on 2-wheel carriages. In other words, you can get “close enough” with a 4-wheeler, where most 2-wheelers have to be a better fit for the horse.
Andy –
Finally watched your half halt class, it was very informative. I have a pair that I have been driving for two years, mostly on fields and roads, not arena work. I have been using two different verbals to prepare for gait transition commands, one for upward (ready? with a rising inflection) and one for downward (heavy said quietly) where you are using the halfhalt verbal. Should I switch to using just one verbal for the halfhalt? I have not yet started with the halfhalt lesson plan, so if I am going to switch verbals I should do it before then. Sadly, it might take longer to retrain me than the horses.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the note. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath-water on this one. If you have verbals that your horses understand, there’s no reason to change that communication. Remember that your verbals are there to communicate your intention to your horses. It sounds like you have established that in the verbals that you’ve developed.
You can leverage that quite effectively. For example, if you find that your horses are slowing and losing energy through their downward transitions, you can use your upward rising verbal for the downward transition. This is a tool I use frequently.
Instead of asking the horse to go from the trot to the walk in a descending tone “AND Walk,” I’ll use the more forward acting rising tone “walk UP!.” That communicates that I want to walk transition, but I want it to be forward and energetic.
Of course, as you say, it’s tricky to retrain yourself to ask for something forward while at the same time asking for a gait change that we often associate with a slowing of the action. It takes time, patience, and practice.
I just purchased my first four wheel marathon carriage. It has a single brake. When I tried out a marathon carriage before purchasing mine the only time I used the brake was to slow the carriage down as we were going downhill. I was thinking a good FB live topic would be about brakes and how and when to use them and maybe techniques when doing cones. i know nothing about the subject. Thanks.
How do I pay for the Run a Way lesson.
Can’t find the page.
Thanks.
Hey there, All the online classes are available in the online learning tab. Here’s the direct link to the Runaway Class
I’m a new driver and was wondering what order of your classes or lesson plan I should start with,
I drive a wonderful mini who is very well trained, He knows more than I do. I want to get as good as he is.
There isn’t necessarily a specific order that lesson plans and classes would designed to be taken in. Most of them will simply be applied slightly differently at different levels. I try to make each class or lesson plan accessible enough for beginner drivers, and yet still valuable for advanced drivers.
That said, Developing the Walk is a great fundamental lesson plan, and the lessons in the Stand class carry through to all of the horse’s training.
I’ll be offering a class on the Half Halt in the next couple weeks that everyone should take (even if they’ve taken it before!)
So, go with what strikes your fancy, or with my suggestions. They all tie together really well.
Hi,Andy,
I took your online class on the stand. I have been having my horse stand by all the places he doesn’t like on the property where I board him. The worst place was in front of the shafts lined up to hitch him. I made him stand in front of the cart, behind it, beside it facing it in front and any where else I could think of. Yesterday I took him to the local horse show arena to drive out on the trails around it. And he lined up the first time and stood still to hitch him!!!!! He’s always stood still to hitch but to get him lined up close enough was an ordeal This was the first time it hasn’t taken 6 or 7 tries to get him straight and close enough to hitch. Your class has made a believer out of me. He was also very quiet and relaxed on the trail and walked 90% of the hour plus long drive. A huge improvement. Thank you. P. S. I live in Phoenix, Az. and it’s been in the 70’s. I come from western New York and know what you’re having to deal with. I look forward to taking more of your online classes. Take care.
Great news Cheryl!
I’m glad it worked out for you. I love to hear when people are having success with what they’ve learned here. It makes the hard work and long nights of writing, editing, and producing feel so much more worth while.
Send me a plane ticket to Pheonix!! 😉
I would if you’d give me driving lessons. My horse has been so much calmer. I was out to Horse Lovers Park again but my helper was going to meet me and was very late. So I had to harness and hitch up my self. Always had someone standing at his head, not touching or holding but there. Well, he lined up and was hitched with no problems!!!!!! Waited for me to get in box, then walked away like a gentleman. it was great. All for a little big thing like standing still. Who knew? You did and are kind enough to pass it on to us novices. Thanks again.
Hi, Andy,
I haven’t written to you in quite awhile. Driving has been improving slowly but well. I went to a driving show in March sponsored by Arizona Driving and Carriage Society. Did 2 classes, one an AARP class. Biggest class of the day and we got caught in a corner and Zinn freaked out, tried to run away but I kept him under control and got him trotting nicely again. The next day we did green horse and got a fourth place under Muffy Seaton. Needless to say Zinn was overwhelmed by all the other carraiges and horses. A lot like when Dororthy opened the door to Oz. He is making a lot of small improvements like standing still, (thanks to your online class) for hitching, on the streets, in the arena and dropping the bit while we finish. He threw his head when I first got him. He’s walking more and more, long and quiet, turning nice circles and not over flexing. progress finally. Thanks for all your help. By any chance are you coming to Arizona?
I have a young gelding who I plan to buy a harness for in a few months as I’m window shopping for harness I came across the brollar/euro collar. Do you have a opinion on what type of turnout they work well for, and what they don’t work well for? Any fitting tips beyond how to measure for a collar? Also would you wait to buy one until the horse is fully mature or are they adjustable enough that they generally could grow with the horse a bit?
Thank you
These are also known as “French” collars. They’ve been around for a long time. They are quite adjustable for the horse’s changing physique.
I’ve used them. In fact there is a picture of my horse wearing one on the front page. I just used it for a year or two to see what I and my horse thought of it.
I didn’t see any great advantage for him in particular. There was nothing wrong with it, but there was no advantage to it for him.
They can be useful for horses that have very “boxy” square shoulders that might be difficult to fit with a traditional breast collar.
The one thing that I’m concern about is the fact that some harness makers are not using a tree in the cap (the top of the collar.) Without the tree, the collar does not distribute the weight evenly on the shoulders.
Could you elaborate on the use of quick release shackles for hooking your traces to the carriage? Is there some sort of guide one could use to figure out what pound force the shackle should be rated depending on your rig? I have a medium Belgian/Welsh cross and a 400 lb marathon carriage that will be driven as a single. Also, how often should they be replaced, and what do you look for as far as wear and tear.
Answering your questions on Facebook Live tonight!